Music Apps

Post by **Avi** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:19 pm

I know that there are a few musicians on this board, and a few people thinking of dabbling with music software. Here's a really good deal that none of you should pass up if you even have the slightest desire to try your hand at producing music.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=241708

It's Sony's legendary Acid software. This isn't the version that you'll find in million dollar studios, but it's still a reliable way of tracking music and getting your ideas across. The best thing is the rebate. If you read closely, you'll see that it's practically FREE! It comes with two $35 dollar mail-in rebates that basically cancel out the price of the software. In the end, you'll only pay taxes and shipping.

I've been using Acid (the program, not the drug) for years and I'll testify to it's awesomeness. It's very easy to use and you can use it in conjunction with other apps. Take my word for it...though I won't be responsible if any of you turn out to be the opposite "musically inclined".

GO GET IT! NOW!

YouTube · Post by **TronFAQ** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:14 pm

I'm going to grab FL Studio, Sony Acid, or something like it soon, and try composing some music.

One of these days. When I find some time. Which is never.

.

But seriously, I want to give it a try at least once.

Post by **Avi** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:57 pm

Get FL Studio and Acid.

I write out parts in FL Studio and save them as Acidized WAV files. Then, I open a new project in Acid and start composing in there. As I put the loops and stuff together, I'll hear other things that need to happen in the song, so I go back to FL and make them. Export to Acid, place the file where it needs to be, and so on. I'll write entire songs on the fly like this.

Post by **Daddyo** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:12 pm

So far I think acid's the easiest software to use for making tunes. FL studio's pretty good though & seems better quality wise, but havent figured out how to re-arrange (compose) tunes, i.e. move pieces around to other areas, or just delete sections, maybe that's why you use acid for that.

Isn't the full version of the sony software like $300+? I saw this was only $70 before rebates. I wish there was software that did everything you'd need.

It's just so cool to make things you can call unique & yours, and if all you want is atmospheric or techno tunes you can make stuff that sounds pretty good fairly quick with FL, but it did take a bit of reading & using it to understand the way that thing works.

You can try free soft-synths that are out there w/o even needing a midi piano, just use your keyboard. My timings & notes are usually so bad that I'm usually re-doing everything with mouse clicks anyway. I know nothing technical about music, but I knows what I likes and just make it that way.

For paid / demo synths, I like the Jupiter 8 emulator http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/dow ... demos.html

the FM8 http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=fm7_us

and imposcar
http://www.gmediamusic.com/gforce/impos ... OSCar.html

Post by **Avi** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:31 pm

The REAL version of Acid that costs 300 bucks is Acid PRO...this is Acid Studio, and although I don't know how the specs compare, I do know that the cheaper Studio version is still a very powerful audio editing tool.

For those that don't know, Acid is for composing and arranging musical passages or loops. You cannot create music in Acid, only arrange music written with another program. FL Studio lets you write and arrange music, but Acid is a lot more flexible than the composition section of FL Studio...which is why I use both apps together.

NicolA.exe · Post by **NicolA.exe** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:24 am

Hail Reason 4 from (www.propellerhead.se). Fl-studio 7 also is an awesome seuencer but less comfortable when it comes to Cpu & Rewire projects. Apropos rewire...when i need the or other vsti (though Reason is a closed environment) i would advise to Ableton Live (www.abletonlive.com) or Project 5 (www.project5.com).

Atm. i'm working alot with Reason 4 only. I love the way Reason show's & works as of a modular synth. Thanks to it's realistic beaviour of each device the routing madness invits u to invent ur own new sounds. I don't talk about the ussual TB-sounds (Tekkno) or any kind of Trance-leads which became too usual to our ears within the 20 years. As Avi seems like to listening/composing Ambient & Experimental Electro, i too like these two genres very much as for their ultimate fredoom. They also have alot of sub-genre so therefore u see alot of combination possiblities.

However this thread seems to be more a talk about music programs i recommend Reason 4. It might look complicated for the first look but thanks to it's devices u realy have everything beginning with such analog, granular, wavetable & fm synthesis. Thanks to Reason's modular system u also could morph sounds or finding other weird workarrounds. There is no limit as ur imagination & knowledge. There are also samplers available to fillin akai, sf2, aiff, rex, wave... soundfiles/libraries. I respect Acid & many other sequeners aswell but to me there is no better ALL-IN-ONE-solution. NO need having 1000s vsti / effect-plugins on ur harddrive plus Reason works pretty smooth (multi-performance advantage).Speaking of Ableton's Live, i have tried to connect it together with Reason & i think it could be the most perfect rewire partner together with Reason.

Fl-studio & Reason together (in rewire-mode) work of course too but Fl-studio is a pattern-sequencer & Reason as many others a traditional alike.So therefore it disturbs the workflow as play/stop only would work on the rewire-master & not on the rewire-slave (in that case) Reason too. I don't want trying to hard to convince. Everyone has his/her own taste of workflow & all programs do help u to turn ur ideas to reality when u completely have mastered the software with all it's features/possiblities. But after years of experiments i guess in Reason a very important software. Especialy to those who are tired of being limitated in creativity or in searching thru 1000 presets on each vsti or even to decide which vsti could be the better choice for a certain sound u have in mind. I ended this nonsense & since i regulary work with Reason i got a better inside into some synthesis when ever could before.

Reason to me is the most sexy programm worldwide!

Post by **Avi** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:10 am

I tried Reason a while back and it didn't seem as flexible as FL Studio. It could be that I'm just more comfortable with FL, but I didn't like how you can't really get "inside" of Reason and make it do what you want it to do. I can load up custom VST's and VSTi's in a split second in FL, but Reason looks like you have to work with the tools you're given from the start. Reason seems like a better program if you only make music in 4/4, which I do to an extent, but I also like to shift time and make things that have people trying to figure out where the beat is. I haven't been able to figure out how to make a 7/12 beat in Reason yet...but if I someone knows how, I might be interested in trying it again.

The only thing I don't like about FL is it's outdated GUI. It makes me feel like I'm in some dark room with no windows (or the LDSO forum :lol: ). One time I edited all of the images that make up the GUI so that it was brighter, but when I was done it was SO bright you couldn't even look at it without burning your retinas. I had to reinstall FL to get it back to it's normal dreary state.

NicolA.exe · Post by **NicolA.exe** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:21 am

Well Avi it always depends on ur needs. The beginns with "how" the features are sorted & what kind of musican u are. U seem more the one who get's away from the fuse of creating ur own patches when we speak about synts & u are seem to be more a sampler/loop user, which explains also ur interests for timeshifting beats & phrases which also reminds me to people who like to use Reason with Recyle (to prepare first rex-files) then loading a rex(loop)file into the Dr.Rex device (in Reason). As rex is wellknown for flexiblity (is uch Beat Slicer in fl-studio) what tempo u ever are in....the beat or bassline or even a lead-phrase won't change it's pitch/speed. Further more u can change the note too in Dr.Rex reguardless which tempo u want. Apropos changing tempo...since Reason 4 u are able to record & automize tempo while recording sesson. I know this was a missing feature in the past while all the other sequencers had this as a common feature.

To be honest i have no idea at the moment how to accomplish a 7/12 with any of the sequencers we talked about sofar as 7/12 to my mind sounds to be an ood time signature. However...in Reson 4 we have a new device/tool called Regroove Mixer. Thanks to this u are able even to produce an real lifefeel & so therefore lively grooves that only can be performed normaly by performers liveplay The groove as u know is something that may give a beat an flexible accent/touch. So it also allows u to stumple then after the comeback to beat as to be "in beat" in the very last minute. There are alot's of variations of grooves in each categories for drums, basslines, even leads & chordplay. So i would guess that Jazz for example would be very experimental & groovy when u think for an accoustic style while DrumNBass, Break/Bigbeat etc... are very flexible aswell when u think of electronic genres.

Now with the Regroove Mixer in Reason 4 u can adjust at the global shuffle & u have several groove-channels that can be assigned to any of ur channels u have now in ur songproject (sequencer sector). Each Groove channel also contains a shuffle plus a slide knob. The slidebar of each groove-channel controlls the amount of the groove to be effectiv stronger or less per each channel. With Regroove u don't just get this little swinging. There is more to bring out. Hmmm u realy made me curious with ur need of wanting such unusual time-signatures. How do make this happen in ur Acid & for what genre a 7/12 might be usual ?!?

NicolA.exe · Post by **NicolA.exe** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:32 am

Apropos Design of Fl-studio....i don't have any problems with dark templates as u know i'm used more to retro looks (good old Soundtrackers Amiga/Pc). Even my first midi-sequencer on Amiga had a dark backgroun. I can better concentrate & to my taste it gives me a better overview of everything arround & within the sequencer.

I know nowadys the trend is to make everything bright but when u look arround alot of sequencers aren't that bright u would like with exepction such a few as Acid Pro. So i guess Project 5 would suit u better as Fl-studio's face. Even Reason would be a better choice for u but Ableton Live would be too dark for ur taste. However....i think it's better for the eyes when the background is darker as u need to stare for a long time per day to blocks, notes, automation data, values etc... So i'm happy with fl-studio's look too & u every time can change the wallpaper backgrund. Of course it's a crazy choice when u put behind brighter pictures such with white background.

Well ur problem is u like Acid the most & Fl-studio as rewire partner sometimes & when u work on both they look so differnetly....the one gives u a dark look while other one shines thru like the sun & then it makes u blind when u have to switch back/forward to the interface to the other software. In case Reason & Fl or Live with Reason or even Reason with Project 5 i don't run into the risk to get exhausted eyes.

What i like on such threads is to figure how different we musicans can be. Speaking not only about the taste of the workflow as also what kind of musicans (genre & experimental needs) we are & do require. I like such threads realy. U always can learn more from others.

Post by **Avi** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:25 am

I use samples for creating textures and manipulating them into something else, but I don't use loops. I'll download drum breaks and cut out the sounds that I want to use, but my work ethic won't allow me to simply click and drag a prefab loop. That's just lazy. I mean, how hard is it to come up with your own drums?

I find it a struggle to create something uplifting in a darkened environment. I have written to FL many times about coming up with a different set of skins for those of us that prefer to step out of the dungeon. Being synaesthetic, it suits me better to have my studio environment match the feeling of the piece that I'm working on. I associate sounds with colors, textures, and taste...so I find it rather dreary to have the same background for every song. It doesn't inspire me at all, so I like to write as fast as possible so that I can close the program and do something else.

Post by **Daddyo** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:56 pm

FL lets you change the background image...

Post by **Avi** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:22 am

Yeah, I know...I currently have that little FL robot on mine.

But it's all still shades of gray. Reason has a very colorful interface (which I am highly envious of), but the program isn't that intuitive and pretty rigid as far as being able to make it do what you want. FL is perfect for me because I only use it as a VST and VSTi host. You can get into the guts of it and rearrange things on the fly, which suits my style of music. You can't experiment that much with Reason.

NicolA.exe · Post by **NicolA.exe** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:13 am

Sorry Avi but that depends on the individual personnally preferences of the "kind of workflow" u require during the music production. U never will be able to tell people Acid is the most intuitive software for easy-to-go. Nor will my person able to convince u or any one else that Reason hit's everything in the audio industry market. I don't want even to debate which programs might be better but u are simply wrong when u claim Reason to be lesser friendly or accessibly for experiments.

What i miss on all vst-hosts are the advantages i only find in Reason such Remote. This technology allows easy configuration of any hardware devices such mixer, effect-devies, usb-keyboards or synths. U don't need to configurate like in all other hots before u are ready for recording any automation for example....u seek for certain keys in ur vsti to be assigned with a few knobs on ur midi-controller (keyboard, synth, mixer etc..). Normaly it takes time to do a setup. Not so in Reason. Even auto-detection is included & when it's done....to just give a taste...for example u now have a mixer, a nn-xt, a subtractor & thor in ur virtual reason rack. If u want to fiddle arround of the faders of the mixer....just press on Reasns mixer & the faders start to react to the movements u are doing on ur hardware device. Or u want now to adjust a few buttons on the subtractor...then pls press on the synth & then subtractor is ready to be ur slave. It can't be a better workflow.

And there more hardware devices u have (attention a midi-interface with many in/outs is required then) the higher the controll pleasure will raise to. And a few words about ur critic that Reason doesn't invite u to experiment....of course it does...can't u hear it's loud cry for it ?!?

Examples:

When use 1000s vsti or vst-effects the one big misstake we all do is that we too much rely on presets of each vsti. So therefore we become lazy & all we do is searching for presets, that are patches/sounds that have been programmed by someone which might be useful or not. So instead to be the dog lycos i prefer to "know" how to acomplish the certain sounds i do have in my mind. And for that i need fredoom of routing & reason gives me that. Of course for example...the subtractor is the oldest device of Reason...a simple analog synth & it's nature sound couldn't compete with a analog device by the manufactor Moog (mid 70s/early 80s). Thanks to routing, the spider devices or even the combinator device i can build a multi-layerd sound & even morph between the one or other sound-instance. And thanks to all the important effect-devices in Reason i'm honest...there are all sounds possible u might have heard in the tekkno/ambient or any kind of other electronic genre. The vsti-workd might give u a better "wow" in face but it doesn't lure u to want to learn more.

But it's ok for a musican who only performs or just want's to concentrate on the compostion (melody, rhytmic, chords...). Those kind of musicans anyways would have bought alot of entertainer keyboards to have all voices to get into it. But when u are a synthesizer freak & u want to be like Jean Michel Jarre, Steve Roach, Ian Boddy, Vangelis, Klaus Schulze or a Jan Hammer, u need to understand the basic of a synthesizer. By the way...u would be surprised to what Subtractor can be used....if u know for example Waiting for Cousteau - track 4" from JMJ ....before the track is about to end....on the last approax. 15 minutes u hear the noise of the water when u would sit down near a sea or being on a boat. I always thought that such a sound can't be done with a synthesizer or even not with Subtractor which sounds far not so good like the newest addition Thor. And when i was fiddeling arround i found out yes...it is possible...u can create a water noice that sounds pretty naturaly & not too electronically.

If u still have a full version of Reason & u are interested to my patch with the water then give me ur email & i will send u a combinator patch so u could explore. U will be surprised....it only takes the lfo & noise (routed thru Oscs 1 & 2 with sine) then of course a big amount of eq treatment by alot of eq & vocoder device(s) to avoid the dirty sounds if u know what i mean. To give the noise this bubble-sound i first connected the lfo1 "from Subtractors modulation output" with a PEG-2 "two band parametric eq" device into it's filter 1 freq CV. When u now enhance the gain knob of PEG-2 a little bit in the higher frequency sector (but don't widen the sound with the filter, search for a smaller space) then this will give the lfo noise sound of subtractor a live. As we also connect thru a few delay-devices...the bubble effect gets continues naturraly live. I also have prepeared the preset to have water-variety, left/right water & volume. I know this sounds too much headache to read thanks to my limitated english skills but however...if u want to figure out what i mean with experimental freedom then ask for this patch i already desribed & u will easier understand why to me Reason is the music programm which can be named as the holy temple/lab of expierements.

And this is just 1 example. I could go one on many howto's to answer why it is as it is & why it saves also more time instead just to rely on 1000 vsti's by searching thru their preset colleciton until u find what u want when u are lucky. To be very honest...without Reason i would know a $h!t about synthesiers. There is so much to grab out with Reasons devices....as above-mentioned already...thanks to the routing madness u can get all sounds u want. I'm not talking about nature ambient.U even don#t need that F@$K'ng Reaktor from NI to first creat ur virtual synth before being ready to make the sounds of ur imagination. Just play inside the modular envoriment of the Reason rack. It's so much the place for the sound-inventor. Also very abstract sounds can be done....u also could for example use ur voice with vocoder, first to be loaded in one of reasons sampler then to connect the vocoder with 1 or more synths same time to bring out nasty voco that even can be manipulated by the melody when u play on the keyboard. Sorry for my long roman but as u see i love Reason as much as i love women.

And i don't want to say Acid is worse or any other sequencer. All are equal to each other but they satisfy a certain group of costumers. I say for everyone the right tools as we all are too different in our needs. All tools can accomplish everything but never make the misstake again to call reason lesser efficent when it comes to sound experiments. In the way how u told it sounded like u meant it generally for all. If Reason doesn't work for u as Acid does then it's an individueal thing. I still remember Xistence saying me 3 years ago about Ableton Live. He told me to him it's more useful than Reason or anything else. Even the learncurve with Live turned for him faster. I couldn't said that with Reason he would be able to make all ambient ideas come true (as he is also a diehard for ambient sounds). So as u see there is no way u can tell people a certain sequencer to call the best for all.

Post by **xistence** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:07 am

Never worked with reason, only rebirth, cubase, abelton and partially with FL.

Post by **Avi** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:37 am

Nicola, you raise a lot of good points, and I can't really put down Reason or it's users...the program is more popular with "accomplished" artists than FL is, and there is a larger following for it, so they must be doing something right. It just isn't right for me and the way that I create sounds.

The Subtractor synth is one of my favorite tools to use. It took me a while to get into it, but one day I decided to stick with it until I made it work for me, and I'm glad that I did.

I don't depend on presets, I like to tweak knobs and create my own blends of tones...but if there's a preset in a VSTi or effect that I find useful, I'm not ashamed to incorporate it into the mix. Everyone has their preferences for sounds, and I find that most programmers try to satisfy the majority of VST users...so what you get are tons of the same damn program but with different GUI's. However, there are quite a few that step outside of the norm and make machines that are simply terrifying...and those are the ones that I hunt for.

I no longer have the copy of Reason installed in my PC. If I did, I'd gladly give that patch a try. Maybe one day I'll feel that I've reached the end of the road with my current apps and dive into Reason headfirst. I'm sure there's something in there that I will find useful, but at the time it didn't seem worth the money to make the switch...especially since I'd have to relearn everything and change the way that I write. It would have taken too much time out of my schedule to figure out how it all works.