Lightcycle Basics

[tailmister]

Greetings Programs.

Decided to follow Tronman and learn a little about programming here.

I have a new map in mind, but a few things pop to mind...

1. How do I make a textured sky? I try adding a texture to a box, but the top seems to be just black (like in my T.Corrupt map.)

2. How do I make a glass grid? LIke one like the game uses where you can see objects in the floor.

3. A Guess on my part, but do texture effects make things happen like grids glow on and off and such?

Anyway, any help is appreciated.

P.S. Loved User Error mod... not quite the ending though.

[tailmister]

ugh.. better learn how to keep my mouth shut...

I just want to say I apologize if I offended anyone about the user error mod. Its really well put together and Defenitly a decent alternate single player which I kinda was starving for, what playing the tron single player about a few dozen times or so.

Anyway, good job guys.

[tronman63304]

well not to derail but i had a cool idea bout something with user error i posted on tron-sector here:
i had another "AWSOME IDIA" i would need help from other map and single player mod developers' who made the beter of the maps (ie:most of them) in'clu'ding the best lc maps (there are to many to have all of them in my idia) and disc arenas.

any way me and tailmister wer talking last night and he helpd me with a vary good part of this idia.

what if we (by we i mean any one who will help) make a mod that implicates using multiplayer maps in single player and adding AI (if its not there already) and, make it like youre travleing to sed map developers computers and trying to find some one or some thing in the computer like another user or some thing and tailmister thot it would be cool if you try and rescue jereme (from user error). as a joke we say we shuold start in v-man home and make it smaller so youre the same size as the stuff and make a didgitizing pad in his bedroom closet and play as him lol

maby you could be jet or alan realizing some one has gone in to the computer with his password and locates him

we would put objectives and start and finish points in to maps and if each map maker made a start level for there comp like a storage bin sector whare you can go betwen maps like a hub that will represent there comp and we make a new web city areas for going in betwen there comps

this will probly never work but it's a good idia dont you think so.

dont reply here so as not to go off topic but thougt it kind of aplyd to the conversation above

[TronFAQ]

1. How do I make a textured sky? I try adding a texture to a box, but the top seems to be just black (like in my T.Corrupt map.)

Did you just want to make a static sky that doesn't move, using a custom texture? Or were you thinking more of a sky like the ones used in the game?

I don't know if you watched my video tutorials or not, but the first one explains how to use a Skybox to make an animated sky appear in your map. They can be found near the bottom of this page.

http://tronfaq.blogspot.com/2006/02/all ... place.html

2. How do I make a glass grid? LIke one like the game uses where you can see objects in the floor.

After watching the video tutorial, it will help you to understand binding objects together. You need to add a WorldModel to your map, and set its BlendMode to Additive or Translucent and the Alpha to a level less than 1 (0.5 is probably good). Then you bind the floor plane to the WorldModel. This means dragging and dropping the Floor object in the Nodes pane on the left, on top of the WorldModel. Then the floor plane becomes a child node of the parent WorldModel, and takes on its properties. In other words, it takes on the transparency setting of the WorldModel.

3. A Guess on my part, but do texture effects make things happen like grids glow on and off and such?

Not really. Texture Effects are meant more for making textures move. If you want glowing speed zones and slow zones, the best thing to do is simply load the sample Light Cycle map that came with the editing tools, and copy and paste the parts of the zones that glow into your own map. There, you can use the Geometry Edit mode (button with the dotted cube) to reshape and resize all the planes to what you want. The zones are made up of multiple planes/layers.

[tailmister]

Did you just want to make a static sky that doesn't move, using a custom texture? Or were you thinking more of a sky like the ones used in the game?

[/quote]

I can do a prefab allright, I just don't know how to make a sky with a regular texture.

Could I make those move with a texture effect?

[xistence]

Just to be precise: a 'prefab' ist just a portion of map, not less, not more (the name prefab implifies it : prefabrication). It is used as 'stamp'- or 'reference'-technology, so you can reduce repeating work in architecture. And it has nothing relevant for skybox (which is built object-based). Just said to prevent misinterpretions.

You should watch the tutorial TronFaq recommend, but at least these are the main elements you need to know, handle and understand:
Skypointer : is used to define elements that should be shown as 'sky'-element (the skybox itself, cloud-layers, etc.). It just point to WorldModel-Object, not brushes, so the other important thing is...
WorldModel : binds a brush (plain geometry) to an object, so this brush can be used in a dynamical way. You use Worldmodel for many cases, not just as here as for the definition of 'sky'-element. They are also used for...

Transparency
You need to do several thing for a 'glass'-effect:
a) use the right texture. It must have an alpha-mask which defines those parts of the texture that should be transparent and how intense this effect should be. So if you're going to make your own texture(s), remember that.
b) a brush to place the texture on.
c) a worldmodel where you bind this brush to.

The worldmodel needs to be told at least: what kind of blending-mode you want to have and which alpha-value (means how much opacity the whole brush will have. that is in combination with the alpha-mask defined by the texture)

And for the texture-effect question
You can do following things for effects:
- Define a sprite, which is mostly like a gif. So it contains several other textures which are played like a 'film-strip'.
- Use TextureEffects. Those are binded to a brush, not to a texture. So you have to look at a brush itself and in its properties. There you can find an entry to set up and also define new texture-effects. Too much to tell just about those stuff, so i won't go into details right here and now
- Use ClientEffects (but i also don't go into details right now, as i expect you don't have enough experience to handle this so soon. Just notice that they exists and set them on your todo-list)

[TronFAQ]

a) use the right texture. It must have an alpha-mask which defines those parts of the texture that should be transparent and how intense this effect should be. So if you're going to make your own texture(s), remember that.

Yeah, I forgot to mention this. Very important. The texture you put on the floor needs to have an Alpha Mask. If it doesn't have one, it won't matter what transparency setting you use for the floor. It won't become transparent. The Alpha Mask tells the game how to handle the transparency of a texture.

Now, something like 90% or more of the textures in the game have Alpha Masks. So you usually don't have to worry about that. But if your floor isn't becoming transparent no matter what you do, that might be the reason why.


If you just want to make the top of the box surrounding your map look like a sky, then yeah you might want to use a texture effect on that individual plane/face. Try using one with "sky" as part of its name, to give you the best effect. Other ones will probably move the sky texture too fast.

[xistence]

If it doesn't have one, it won't matter what transparency setting you use for the floor. It won't become transparent.

Sorry, but i have to correct this : using a worldmodel and setting its BlendMode/Alpha will make the whole brush transparent, regardless what kind of texture you set up or what kind of alpha-mask it use in the first. But, if you want to use one texture showing e.g. a window plus a windowframe, you want the frame staying opaque while the window itself should be transparent. There comes the alpha-mask of the texture into play. So the alphamask and the worldmodel-alpha value can be used to define what should be shown and how intense. The worldmodel defines a transparency for all, the alphamask for parts of the texture. Surely you could even use a fully opaque texture as 'transparent'-texture for a brush as long you define a blendingmode and an alpha in the worldmodel that is < 1.0. So these are possible cases:

> You don't use a worldmodel, just a brush and a texture (regardless if it use an alphamask or not) No transparency
> You use a worldmodel, but didn't set a blendingmode No transparency
> You use a worldmodel, set a blendingmode, use a texture containing no alphamask and worldmodel-alpha >= 1.0 No transparency
> You use a worldmodel, set a blendingmode, use a texture containing an alphamask Transparency
> You use a worldmodel, set a blendingmode, use a texture containing no alphamask but worldmodel-alpha < 1.0 Transparency

So you need:
- a worldmodel with a blendingmode set and
- a texture with alphamask and/or
- worldmodel-alpha <= 1.0

[TronFAQ]

i have to correct this

Sorry, yeah you're absolutely correct. Guess that's what you get for replying before having the morning coffee and a chance to fully wake up.

[Jizaboz]

I have a general question on this...

If you look at the back of the Tron 2.0 CD jewelcase, there is a pic of a lightbike with a mountain behind him. A mountain of grid-like texture, but still... it looks like some sort of triangulated terrain. What is that? A 3D model? A 2D trick? Would there be a way to add collision to a "terrain" like that for say.. a SP or DeRez map?

I couldn't recall taking a good look at the "mountains" and I don't have the Tron 2.0 assets extracted right now. Just wondering... nothing urgent, would just like to hear from you on this when you get the chance.

[tronman63304]

that was in the lc level after the net level off to the side

[TronFAQ]

If you look at the back of the Tron 2.0 CD jewelcase, there is a pic of a lightbike with a mountain behind him. A mountain of grid-like texture, but still... it looks like some sort of triangulated terrain. What is that? A 3D model? A 2D trick? Would there be a way to add collision to a "terrain" like that for say.. a SP or DeRez map?

The "mountains" were only used on one level, called Outer Grid Escape. It happens right after you leave the Progress Bar in the Internet city. You ride around on a Super Light Cycle on a grid, and you see those mountains in the background.

I'm not sure if they're part of the terrain, or prefabs. But it's got to be one or the other. I guess you could say they're 3D models, yes. Not models in the sense that the game refers to them (characters or props), but rather world geometry.

Unfortunately, those mountains aren't available in any form we can use to make maps with. We received very little in the way of sample maps, models, or prefabs in an editable form.

This is why some of us tried to approach BVG and ask them to provide more Tron 2.0 editing materials, years ago. But they eventually just told us to get lost, in a "nice" way.

[xistence]

About that mountain-stuff:

If someone is curious about if there is a terrainsystem in this engine (like in others these days) : no.
But there is an option in Dedit to import data to generate geometry that is based on a heightmap (what is normaly the main function of terrainsystem, that might confuse the one or another).
So to be clear: it is geometry that just looks like terrain, but it don't behave like one. Thats it. Terrainsystem do stuff like culling and/or occluding based on camera-frustums and more, this imported geometry don't. So it is neither recommend or useful to use this feature in DEdit, you could also build 'terrain' by hand directly (or import it from other 3D-applications, which is much more useful then anything in Dedit). That imported geometry is also full of unused polys (you have about 4-5 times more polys then needed) and you need to clear these manually so you map won't get massivly laggy.

Anyway, if you are intrested into how to import such stuff, here are the steps (i have to remember, don't beat me if something might be missing):
-Open Dedit, open map/start new map
-Prepare a grayscaled(!) image as heightmap (if you don't know anything about heightmaps and how to create them, inform yourself on google. Too much to say just about this point). Save the heightmap as PCX.
-In Dedit open a box. Important: that box will reflect the dimension of your piece of terrain your going to import! So the proportions of this box is used to scale the geometry of the imported terrain. If you want to have high mountains you have to give the box a great height, if you want to have small hills, set the height low. If you want your imported terrainsegment to be hugh, give the box a great width and depth, otherwise set it smaller.
Without the box set and selected(!) the option 'import terrain' under 'brush' won't get enabled. And don't try anything else then a box, it seems (for a logical reason) that other geometries are not accepted.
-Activate 'Brush/Import terrain' and a dialog will pop up where you have to choose your prepared heightmap.
-Wait... make a coffee... make holidays... take a walk... visit your neighbours... it can take a long time to import!

IMPORTANT:
-You shouldn't create heightmaps greater in size then 32x32. Dedit will take hours to import hugh maps, even the risc that dedit will crash during import is very high.
-You get lots of extrapolies which you have to correct manually(!). Also a reason not to import heightmaps that are too big. You map will be laggy at the first!

[TronFAQ]

Good to know exactly how the Import Terrain feature works. Thanks for the detailed write-up! It's a feature that I've never used before.

It sounds like we're better off just creating the terrain in another program, though.

[tailmister]

I keep wondering how to make a texture that is on the celing of the box appear.

It seems like when I add the texture to a box, everything else shows up, but the celing is just black... and I have no idear why. Any thoughts?