[Shared]- Hangman.EXE HD Sark Carrier - v1.0

[HangmanEXE]

ICRegularReinforcement is what the goalset is set too atm FAQ... thats why it confused the hell out of me. lol
All they do atm is just "appear- no rez in" then they run up or try to follow me for a moment an once they catch up to me, stop an stand still an ...watch me, spinning on spot to keep looking directly at me.

I removed disc smack, but it didnt make any difference in how they act. -for note, I am testing via launch in Dedit to try to save time while working... Not sure if that is affecting their AI or not, but felt it was worth mentioning.


I gave that MCP Guard thing a try....lol... it was "unusual" to say the least, lol.
It will cause some "WEIRD" loadin and physics effects to happen when using that method...

1. your 1/3 size compaired to everything else.
2. If you EVER jump, from that point forward your ice-skating from that point on in a zeroG inertia-less environment... lol.
3. MCP guards load in as half rezed in red rez-in boxes, lol. So that method is out FAQ... lol.


...good try tho, I do appreciate the effort tho FAQ, as MCP guards would have REALLY made my map shine.
Saddens me to see I will have to figure out how to just use red "null unit" soldiers on it.

[TronFAQ]

That's what I thought would happen. But, it was worth a try.

Some of the other LDSO team members have had weird results, where the odd MP model actually worked for SP stuff. Even though it shouldn't. The game engine treats Single Player and Multiplayer models differently. All the AI use SP models, and the Guard is an MP model. It would need to be converted to an SP model.

[deeahchur]

So I take it there is difficulty creating the SP model without Source code or something? Otherwise I do not see how this has not already been accomplished.

[deeahchur]

I think it is amusing to watch the models "dance". I used to place them in data analysis alcoves in my old YCP HQ map. It was almost like being in a club. haha

By the way, it is also possible to add partial Kernel armor on IC units, and it looks pretty cool!

[TronFAQ]

@deeahchur: Yes, it's difficult to create an SP model. Disney/Monolith gave us nothing on that front.

Ideally, we should have gotten at least one sample model in Maya format. That's what Monolith used to create all the characters. ModelEdit is only good for modifying existing models to a degree, and compiling them into the final .LTB format for use in the game.

Even a sample SP character in .LTA format would have been good. (But a Maya character is better.)

Now, Monolith gave away a sample Maya SP character with the NOLF 2 Tools. But, there are slight differences between the SP models used in NOLF 2 and TRON 2.0. So if you use the NOLF 2 model as a starting point, your TRON 2.0 character will turn out deformed.

Thus begins the arduous process of correcting these (skeleton) errors in Maya. It's a real pain in the ass.

Even with a sample TRON 2.0 model for Maya (which we don't have): when you replace the mesh to make the sample character look like a new one, you still need to make the new mesh form properly around the bones and to look good when the character animates. You might get the mesh looking good when the character is static and standing still. But once the model moves, suddenly your mesh is getting stretched and distorted in all kinds of weird ways. So then you have to work on that, too. Add to that, the fact that we have essentially no documentation on how to properly make a character in Maya.

It becomes one long, irritating process of trial and error.

Since we ended up getting MP models in .LTA format, those can be imported into Maya with the provided plugins. (Provided you have the right version of Maya, that is.) Then you replace the mesh with a new one. You still need to go through the process of making the new mesh fit the bones, but at least you don't have to correct the model skeleton.


@Hangman: Have you added an AIVolume object to your map?

You need, at a minimum, one AIVolume object in your map to get AI to behave. The AIVolume acts as a way of defining where your AI can go. You add the object, make it flush with the floor, then resize it to be something like 128 units tall, and make it as wide and long as how far you want the AI to be able to travel.

[HangmanEXE]

Yup, confirmed bud. I have an AI volume FAQ. I have even tryed playing around with the Alignment in that setting also... still with no effect. ....giving up on the sec rezzers for now.... they were not in the [Visible sections] of the shots of the carriers interiors in the film anyway....

...Honestly, gotta say.... I am gettin so damn frustrated with all the MP map limitations that keep hittin me with what seems like all of my MP map ideas that I might just hang it up on the MP Derez stage version of this project for now, and just finish my Carriers [model only] version then move on to another model project.

As it seems model work seems to be what I am good at right now. Perhaps once I understand coding an have a better grasp of the tricks I can do to fake things later this might work out.
As it is clear; even with what I have learned; I STILL just dont know enough yet to really achive the stuff I want to do.

...an frankly that really is startin to piss me off the most...

[I "WANT" to know "& UNDERSTAND" how to do more in TRON 2.0!].....

[HangmanEXE]

Greetings Programs

I just wanted to swing by before I have to crash out early and post a Carrier progress update preport.

Due to my work schedule I have been slowed "SEVERELY" recently on free time that I can devote to continued work on the carrier.
But I am doing what I can and work [DOES] continue whenever I can find time available to do so, even if it is a small cut/geometry edit here or there...

Tonight I managed to get all the Completly new built Command Sections cuts finished. I still have to go back now and do all the geometry editing to snap all the edges in position so it continues to be a 0 error model.

I also managed to squeeze in another spot I had missed in my original rebuild. The underside nearest the connecting rings. In the film it featured this section...

Cut.jpg

... I spotted this looking at my new Bluray shots, as well as spotting a BLACK dome on the forward bottom side of that shaped area shown above.
These were incorporated into this edit tonight also.


But here is a pic of what I managed to get done tonight.

Progress.jpg

As always I will return an post another update with pics ASAP.

[deeahchur]

Lookin' good, Hangman! Even little progress is better than no progress (such is my case).

I find it very difficult to create a 0 error map, given a lot of my torus shapes and wedges will undoubtable be off grid. I'll go more into that on the YCP thread (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=929).

[HangmanEXE]

Well, unfortunately T junctions dont show on those scans when you do them... I would frankly be "VERY" terrified of just how many it would show if it could display them... [shivers]. I have the WORST problem remembering T junctions.... they seem to CONSTANTLY slip past me...
Like I know just recently I realized this morning that I had CREATED a ton of them without spotting them when I worked on my command section the last time I did some editing on the Command section.

...never try to rush a good thing.

You can spot them if you look at the White an Blue bars wrapping the sections around to the red glow strip cuts... those are NOT textures.... I did them via cuts... so there's ALOT of T junctions right there at just a quick glance. So those will need replaced with solid planes and a custom texture when I repair that section of the work.

Like I said....I would be terrified to know just how many I have in my model.

But each flaw I am learning from. So [HOPEFULLY] I will stop forgetting to watch for T junctions VERY soon.

[TronFAQ]

Yup, confirmed bud. I have an AI volume FAQ. I have even tryed playing around with the Alignment in that setting also...

Hmm, if I'm understanding you correctly, when you use an ICP model your AI behaves correctly. But if you change it to a different model, the AI won't attack? That's odd. The model used shouldn't affect the behavior.

The only thing I can think of is, don't change the Alignment setting for the AI. Leave it at None. Do the same for the AIVolumes. Might not make a difference, but worth a try.


The Carrier is coming along really nicely! And while getting rid of errors is a worthwhile goal, I wouldn't obsess over them too much. Get rid of as many as you can. But if you get points off grid errors and stuff like that, don't pull your hair out trying to fix every last one. If you study the sample maps we were given, Monolith's work was full of errors too.

[HangmanEXE]

Hmm, if I'm understanding you correctly, when you use an ICP model your AI behaves correctly. But if you change it to a different model, the AI won't attack? That's odd. The model used shouldn't affect the behavior.

The only thing I can think of is, don't change the Alignment setting for the AI. Leave it at None. Do the same for the AIVolumes. Might not make a difference, but worth a try.

Tried that too FAQ just now... still no change.

I have NO idea why my bots are acting different than yours do for you trying this. I have not changed any files or there paths, everything is set to default install paths. I installed the game from an actual copy of the game, patched the game, then ran the big tools installer... I am stumped.

The Carrier is coming along really nicely! And while getting rid of errors is a worthwhile goal, I wouldn't obsess over them too much. Get rid of as many as you can. But if you get points off grid errors and stuff like that, don't pull your hair out trying to fix every last one. If you study the sample maps we were given, Monolith's work was full of errors too.

...ya I know FAQ, I do... its just after when I came back to TRON 2.0 editing and I looked back at my old Download failed original mapping attempt....[sigh]... really bothered me that I thought I knew what I was doing back then.
I just don't want to release total crap. AN THAT MAP [WAS]!
.... don't even ask about the errors on that map attempt.... OMG. "MULTIPLE" layered planes stacked on top just 1 above each other instead of 1 cut plane textured. "EXTREME" ammounts of off grid errors, INHUMAN levels of T junctions an too small poly errors....


I just want to be sure this time I am doing it right.

....because I thought I was back then too.

[TronFAQ]

Now that I think about it some more: I just realized, the Civilian SP models may not have hand sockets. They're meant to be peaceful bystanders. No hand sockets, no way to hold a weapon and then they won't attack. So the model actually would matter if this hypothesis is correct.

[HangmanEXE]

.....[face palm]... so not even null units for defenders for the map... [shakes head]... so just forget the derez version then of this map then, I will just continue as originally planned an release a completed carrier model only for other ppls maps & mods then continue making other HD accurate TRON models for use in maps & mods.

As for my MP map, I guess I will just start repairs on my original map since this one isnt gonna work the way I want.

...actually, I believe it would be easier to just refocus the map idea; make it a MCP vs Virus infection divided map using my tugs; an rebuild it from scratch as I still have the original design drawings and the steps to make some of its working parts figured out down on paper here.

[HangmanEXE]

Now that I think about it some more: I just realized, the Civilian SP models may not have hand sockets. They're meant to be peaceful bystanders. No hand sockets, no way to hold a weapon and then they won't attack. So the model actually would matter if this hypothesis is correct.

.....[face palm]... so not even null units for defenders for the map... [shakes head]... bah... forget the derez version then of this then, I will just continue as originally planned an release a completed carrier model only for other ppls maps & mods then continue making other HD accurate TRON models for use in maps & mods.

[HangmanEXE]

Greetings Programs

Carrier Progress update report.

Well I finished the Command section and it has been reattached with only 5 errors in total of the 9987polys.
Sadly I couldnt fix these 5 "tonight". I know where they are. Its that dang angle slope cut face on the end of the command section. Dang angle cuts drive me nuts when trying to do geometry editing on them to pop them back into place on all sides.... I will try to get around to fixing them tomorrow if at all possible.

Here is a pic of my current progress...

Progress.jpg

Also an email is being sent out now to those in the LDSO an my friends here for the next prelem file.

BE FORE WARNED PRELEM VIEWERS! This model has taken on a life of its own! The detail level is HUGE, an dedit starts to slow down when you turn to face some areas.
...startin to wonder if I went ...jus... a "lil bit" overboard on the detail. lol