YCP Maps

[xistence]

I only encountered this problem/messages when all of my brushes are set to use no lightning at all, set in their 'LightControl' properties (so at least no brush would be affected by lights). As minimum you would need one brush using 'clip light'.

[deeahchur]

I am correcting the NoClipLight issue on geometry that is all black and would likely block light. Hopefully that will solve the issue and no further problems arise.

*crosses fingers*

EDIT: Well, no issue during processing, BUT, there was an issue when running.

I pressed Run from DEdit, and it went into Tron, started the Custom level loading screen with "YCP_Evo_HQ" labeled.

Client MFC Application has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.
It shows the Lithtech icon.

Error signature:
AppName: lithtech.exe
AppVer: 1.0.0.1
ModName: object.lto
ModVer: 0.0.0.0
Offset: 0005dd71

[xistence]

You are sure that you have at least added one GameStartPoint? Or are you using some kind of environment mapped textures which are misconfigured?

[deeahchur]

I have an ArenaStartPoint. Do I need a GameStartPoint instead or also? The map is meant for MP at this point.

As for misconfigured environment textures, I can only think of the four (so far) that are not native to Tron. I edited and added some textures; they show up in DEdit, but I suppose they might be confusing the game.

The path is as follows, starting with the TEX folder:

TEX\YCP\YCP\YCP_texturename.DTX

I copied and pasted a skybox, Sky, and energy beam from one of the standard MP maps. I'm not sure how this would break the map, though.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what it could be. I could send you the map or share my DropBox with you to take a look.

I appreciate your assistance!

[xistence]

If you run a map from Dedit, it will always be runned as 'singleplayer'-maps, you need one gamestartpoint for those test-runs.

The texture paths seems correct, so far.

If you want to share the map, maybe you can send it to me, as i don't use dropbox. Or you can tell me a different source where to get it.

[deeahchur]

I added a GameStartPoint, but that did not seem to correct the issue. The same error persisted.

Here is the URL/link to a copy of the file. I included the LTC, the INFO, the DAT (just in case), and a copy of my textures (to this date; thee will be more).

http://www.filefactory.com/file/b4c7cd8 ... Evo_HQ.rar

Again, thank you for your assistance.

If anyone else would like to check out the map, please feel welcome!

[xistence]

I think, we can reduce the possible sources for your problem to somewhere in your settings/run options. I can open, process and even start/play the map w/o any prob. Textures are there, so these are not creating the prob. The map has issues in its geometry, which need to be fixed, but none that would crash the map. And you are still somewhere in the middle of the progress, so no big deal either. And the gamestartpoint isn't also the problem.

So maybe you can post your current settings under Dedit>Edit>Options>Tab:Run.

Btw.: Although i know you will do some more stuff on the map, but the current polycount is about 2 times beyond that what would be recommen (i would recommen a max of 40000, which is already tough for this engine. Yours is >120000). Current hardware might be able to handle this, but not this old engine-technology (hardware and software must be kept in mind while creating such stuff).
Otherwise, if you can't reduce it, you would need to do a lot of optimizing (already now) to make this map good in its performance. Just telling this now, so you can keep an eye on it, before you advanced so much, so that you can't change it anymore.

[deeahchur]

Starting with the settings:

Edit > Options > Run tab:

Executable:
C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\Lithtech.exe

Working Directory:
C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0

Program arguments: (This is where I think the problem originates)
-rez engine.rez -rez GAME.rez -rez sound.rez -rez GAME2.rez -rez "C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\YCP" -rez gamep5.rez -rez gamep6.rez -rez "C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\YCP\nulnt" -rez "C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\TRON 2.0\tcdg\game" +windowed 1 +runworld "%WorldName%"


Next, in DEdit, Process World

Common Tab
Project Path:
C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\game\WORLDS\RETAILMULTIPLAYER\DEATHMATCH\

Advanced Tab: (all left as default settings)
Out File: (left blank; When I first started, I distinctly remember actually putting something in there, but instructions this time around are to "use the defaults" which is blank.)
NumThreads: 0
BalanceWeight: 0.90
LMSampleExtrude: 0.05
LMToLightExtrude: 0.10
LMOverSample: (checked)
CenterWorld: (checked)


Now on to GEOMETRY!
It is so high probably due to using 32 side circular forms as a base factor. Quartered spheres make up many corners, so high polycount in that alone. Other than using at least a 16 side circular form (which is what I used in my previous incarnation of YCP), what are your suggestions for lessening polycount and optimizing the map? Are there other geometry issues in the map, or is this pretty much what needs to be fixed?

X, how do you get our curves looking so nice without a high poly count? Your maps are so smooth-looking! What's your secret?! hahaha

I was worried the curves would end up being a problem. A shame, really. I was really pleased with how the map was turning out (since this was the original design even years ago when I first started. The map isn't even halfway completed in terms of geometry and forms!

I am NOT deterred, though!

So, since you were able to open the map, how does it look from the inside? Any sample screenshots?

[TronFAQ]

-rez engine.rez -rez GAME.rez -rez sound.rez -rez GAME2.rez -rez "C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\YCP" -rez gamep5.rez -rez gamep6.rez -rez "C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\YCP\nulnt" -rez "C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\TRON 2.0\tcdg\game" +windowed 1 +runworld "%WorldName%"

You copied X's example, but he has a specific setup that doesn't apply to you. You would need to greatly modify his example. It should be more like this:

Code: Select all

-rez engine.rez -rez GAME.rez -rez sound.rez -rez GAME2.rez -rez "C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0" -rez gamep5.rez -rez gamep6.rez -rez "C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\TRON 2.0\tcdg\game" +windowed 1 +runworld "%WorldName%" +errorlog 1 +alwaysflushlog 1

Project Path:
C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\game\WORLDS\RETAILMULTIPLAYER\DEATHMATCH\

This is wrong. It should be:

Code: Select all

C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\game

[xistence]

T already answered this. And i can just repeat that, what i said when i posted my 'program arguments': know what you are doing, if you are going to copy them (what i didn't recommend)!
Correct/remove those paths like:
-C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\YCP\nulnt
-C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\TRON 2.0\tcdg\game
as long you don't really own them. Telling the engine, it could find anything there, can be critical.

As well as change the path for process, following T's example. This path must be the root for all resources (textures, sounds, definition, worlds, etc.), you just gave the world data to the Processor (and as the processor works with relative paths, even this is worng).
Without any data, it cannot really process any new DAT file, and without a valid and working DAT the engine cannot work and crashes! The DAT you already might, can be from a previous timepoint, when you setting where corrrect. Or the compiling was done, even w/o the resources, but still, w/o correct paths it cannot run as this is another story.

what are your suggestions for lessening polycount and optimizing the map?

Many: use the Level Error Detector, try to avoid the use of two-sided polies where it is not needed, delete those polies that might never be visible for the player in game, merge polies on the same plane as long they did not build a non planar or concave, and much more. But this demands good editing knowledge in dedit.

Are there other geometry issues in the map, or is this pretty much what needs to be fixed?

I recommen to use the 'Level Error Detector', it helps a lot to track down issues in your map, and yes you have a lot of them right now in the map (Small polies,rundant points, non planars, etc.)

X, how do you get our curves looking so nice without a high poly count? Your maps are so smooth-looking! What's your secret?! hahaha

I built them manually directly on Dedit, that way i can control at least every single poly. The way 'how' is too complicated (mostly speaking of 'rotating' things) as i could describe it with plains words. I would need to make a visual tutorial, but not having the time so far.

I was worried the curves would end up being a problem. A shame, really. I was really pleased with how the map was turning out (since this was the original design even years ago when I first started. The map isn't even halfway completed in terms of geometry and forms!

Well the beginning is always difficult, so was it for all others (including myself). You just should pay attention not to make too big steps in the beginning. First 'walk', then 'run'. Not vice versa.

So, since you were able to open the map, how does it look from the inside? Any sample screenshots?

I made just two quick screenshots, as the gamestartpoint led me into a 'chamber' or something, where i wasn't able to get out. Or it was just to dark, with all the black texture, to see where to go. I can prepae those two screens next time.

[deeahchur]

For starters, I apologize if I am frustrating anyone with my errors. I appreciate all the help everyone is offering, and I respect both TronFAQ's and X's expertise.

I input the corrected paths as described, but on both my laptop and desktop I still experience a Client MFC Application error for Lithtech. I really don't know what is the problem. I will not even try to speculate at this point.

I ran the Level Error Detector, and I saw what X is talking about.

I corrected the Non-Detail (Detail = False) Brush problem, which I don't even know how it occurred. I definitely created only the one named Bounding Box, but I selected everything other than that brush and deliberately changed everything back to Detail = True.

The non-planar brushes have me confused, as well, because I built everything using the grid. I suppose when I grouped faces it now thinks they are non-planar due to the curved geometry that was grouped with it? There are other polies that also don't make sense to have this error, given how I crafted them.

Polies too small/short. Yes, theses are predominantly from the smaller curved surfaces I made. Learning that DEdit doesn't like polies smaller than 4 units is enlightening but unfortunate, especially for the disc model I made (as a non-functional decorative only, unfortunately).

Points OffGrid might still be a slight issue, given the rotation of some geometry to create the more-or-less rounded or torus forms. Even the first time around I tried to build strictly to the grid, but that broke the uniformity of certain elements when rotating to create the torus shapes and interior geometry, such as walls.

Double-facing polies I did not use as much this time around, so their use is specific and intentional. They occur on elements that are transparent. This time around I created a 64 unit buffer zone (wall thickness) on the Torus shapes and SecurityWalls, so when seen through at windowed sections, the lightstrips are meant to be seen from both sides, and even then, I did not do this very much, just at the windowed sections, Chambers, and DataBlocks/Bin. I textured the windows/forcefields on both sides to delineate the fact that there is more than 1 field. There should not be any other double-faced textured brushes in the map.

My old version of YCP did not run into this error, because I made the edges beveled instead of curved. The grid was used more precisely for all the geometry, and all forms were larger than 4 units. I may have to go back to that design scheme to reduce the amount of poly errors.

Any other comments or suggestions? I welcome them and appreciate the constructive criticism.

[xistence]

For starters, I apologize if I am frustrating anyone with my errors.

Nothing to apologize for, we all ran through this valley of pain once. We can understand the problem, and you're welcome to ask.

I input the corrected paths as described, but on both my laptop and desktop I still experience a Client MFC Application error for Lithtech. I really don't know what is the problem. I will not even try to speculate at this point.

Still - based on my personal experiences - it seems to be a configuration problem, rather then a map problem. But this is a point were someone would need to see this configuration in realtime. It might be a typo somewhere, or something that none has even think about yet. But if those points, named so far, are realy correct, then it is hard to get bug.

The non-planar brushes have me confused, as well, because I built everything using the grid. I suppose when I grouped faces it now thinks they are non-planar due to the curved geometry that was grouped with it? There are other polies that also don't make sense to have this error, given how I crafted them.

It is not the grouping (at least not, as long you didn't removed edges to 'melt' polies together). But i noticed that, if you rotate complex brushes, or move verticies in geometry mode, this can be a matter why there are faces suddenly being non-planar. The easiest way: split this faces it into triangles, a triangle can never be non-planar.

Polies too small/short. Yes, theses are predominantly from the smaller curved surfaces I made. Learning that DEdit doesn't like polies smaller than 4 units is enlightening but unfortunate, especially for the disc model I made (as a non-functional decorative only, unfortunately).

AFAIK a poly is defined being 'short' if it is less then 1 grid unit in length. But: small polies are not that critical at all. As long you don't have thousands of them, it might be okay to leave them. Nevertheless, if you have the choice to remove them (as you can rework something in the geometry), you should do it.

Points OffGrid might still be a slight issue, given the rotation of some geometry to create the more-or-less rounded or torus forms. Even the first time around I tried to build strictly to the grid, but that broke the uniformity of certain elements when rotating to create the torus shapes and interior geometry, such as walls.

Same as with the small polies issue: the engine can be very strict with these errors, but you need to know if it is really critical at all or not. Unfortunately this is also dependable from your map as well: the bigger and more complex, the more you need to pay attention and might be forced to fix it.

[deeahchur]

Yes, I have moved points in the map, but every time I used the grid. I needed to for accuracy! But, whatever, DEDit is finding something strange in the geometry. I know where the too short/small polies are, and I understand why they are occurring. I can fix them if it is really necessary, and given the fact that each map is due to be more complex than can be seen so far, I can simplify what I can. I may still revert to an older style or compromise between my aspirations and the older style.

You have seen the install path and tools path, so there is nothing special about the location of the files. I otherwise copied and pasted the configurations as presented, so there should not be any typos. I even double-checked everything, step-by-step, more carefully this time than before.

I started a new map with global elements and a basic brush, nothing fancy, and tried to run the map. Same error.

I have resolved myself to uninstalling and reinstalling DEdit, and starting fresh. I have saved copies of my maps, prefabs, textures, etcetera in my dropbox, so I know I won't lose them. That will prove, to me, at least, if it is something in the configuration and setup of DEdit. I can't imagine something having gone wrong there, though; as it was, I didn't understand why I was experiencing processing errors in the first place, but, I digress.

I will install Tron 2.0 in the default location. Should I install KA before or after I install and execute a first-run of the toolset? What is the base minimum configuration I should use for processing and running the map?

[TronFAQ]

For starters, I apologize if I am frustrating anyone with my errors. I appreciate all the help everyone is offering, and I respect both TronFAQ's and X's expertise.

We've all been frustrated. The only difference between us is that some have already gone through the misery of trying to get things to work properly, and might be able to spare those who follow the same misery. When I was making my first maps, I was pulling my hair out because of how crappy the documentation and toolset was. (Well, really more the docs than the tools.)

Should I install KA before or after I install and execute a first-run of the toolset?

In my particular case, I installed the mod after the tools. But that's only because I was already working with the tools, long before I worked on the mod.

The order you do it in should make no difference.

[deeahchur]

Thanks to TronFAQ's guidance, I have been able to test the maps I have been working on, and there are definitely areas that require improvement, but overall I am please with how they are turning out.

X has been invaluable with informing me of map limitations, regarding polygon count and file size suggestions.

As a result, I have started making base maps for each of the intended levels, but the scale is much less than I originally intended. I did this so that I could get the layouts blocked in and see how I want to scale down/adapt the concepts into smaller levels. The concept that was hit the hardest was any level using the array format. I can still use the array, but only without the complex stacks I had in mind. I may try to push the boundaries bit by bit, so I guess at this point we'll see what can be done!

Thank for everyone's help so far!