TRON: Modding Discussion - Weather???

[HangmanEXE]

Greetings Programs

[I do understand that this isnt a custom map thread. BUT! I felt that since it pertained to information that might cause ppl to alter the map modding somewhat, I placed this thread here.]


Like many of you I have been watching the TRON: Uprising ongoing series on Disney DX every thursday. It has been a JOY to watch.
But as I have watched it, an thinking of the Dedit fuctions we normally DONT use that we all know are there for use [IF] we wanted.

So! I have to ask...

Now that TRON Uprising has shown nice usages of... Fog... Rain, Deserts, etc.

...how does it IF AT ALL... affect how you decide to use the Dedit map options? Has TRON: Uprising caused you to second think using fog... an weather elements for use in retro & 2.0 style maps also?

...I mean... if they are in Uprisings world and are natural parts of there digital worlds... wouldnt the retro/2.0 worlds have it also??

I just felt that this was something that maybe we could discuss at little bit to see how everyone feels about Digital Weather now for use in the TRON 2.0 worlds maps.

Please Feel free to chime in an leave your thoughts or feelings about it!

[deeahchur]

Great idea, bud!

As of recent, and due mostly to Tron: Uprising, there are some weather elements I would like to try using. I'll consider which works best for the maps. There is one map, H311, that I would like to implement heat aspects and environmental damage, and I can see use of a corrupting rain, too.

For a map with high traffic, kinda like Frogger, I wanted to utilize wind.

[TronFAQ]

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the weather in Legacy/Evolution/Uprising. In the sense that they made it look a bit too realistic. Some parts of the updated aesthetic just look too much like the real world for my liking. But, I can see past it and still enjoy the new Tron.

The original Tron and Tron 2.0 also had some limited weather effects. But they were simplified, more abstract versions of the real thing. Which is what they should have stuck with.


Now, for UE3 I already had in mind that I'd have a desert on one of the levels. Which I showed in one of the video previews, as seen below. This was even before Uprising debuted.




But, again, this desert is going to be much more abstract. Not so realistic. So it looks like a simulation of the real thing, rather than actually trying to be like the real thing.

I'm also going to use a little bit of fog, here and there. But I doubt I'll be doing any kind of precipitation, such as rain or snow.

[HangmanEXE]

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the weather in Legacy/Evolution/Uprising. In the sense that they made it look a bit too realistic. Some parts of the updated aesthetic just look too much like the real world for my liking. But, I can see past it and still enjoy the new Tron.

The original Tron and Tron 2.0 also had some limited weather effects. But they were simplified, more abstract versions of the real thing. Which is what they should have stuck with.


Now, for UE3 I already had in mind that I'd have a desert on one of the levels. Which I showed in one of the video previews, as seen below. This was even before Uprising debuted.




But, again, this desert is going to be much more abstract. Not so realistic. So it looks like a simulation of the real thing, rather than actually trying to be like the real thing.

I'm also going to use a little bit of fog, here and there. But I doubt I'll be doing any kind of precipitation, such as rain or snow.

Greetings Programs

I love how you did the desert for the TRON 2.0 world so far in the new User Error expansion! I am very curious to know how you did the spinning dust in the wind pixels effect, and I am hopign to see more of how you guys would put your personal take on weather/weather FX. I have been facinated of late by.. how snow might be done in their world... if it existed... or would it always be rain...?.

I find the weather to be such a odd thing for a "digital world"......... but we have lakes an streams an oceans... I guess you HAVE to have elements "in some form/fashion" even in the digital world.
or do you personally feel the older worlds were not that "in depth/evolved" as the legacy style digital worlds? Maybe the weather is a new thing for the newer systems??

...so odd trying to figure something like this out. I would love to hear the original TRON movie designers take on something like this.

It might be something that you guys could bring up with DiRT on the podcast.. might make for a interesting discussion since there shows are always an hour long.

[xistence]

What i thought, when i saw Tron Evolution, was: 'for what reason does programs need the simulation of water, rain of even fog?'. I mean, programs don't drink, don't swim and in a digital world there is no concept of matter, everything is just energy or code. So having these things that would mean it must have been simulated and coded, but for what reasons? I don't think that programs would do that, because they developed in an environment where they could create whatever they like, and where they are free of the 'bounds' of matter and most of physical laws. Only users might have a reason to create that kind of simulation, but again why? As a user you would experience the same freedomness as a programs but just with huge power and why shouldn't you use you power to create other things then just those you already know?
Just my two cents about that.
I like the original Tron film (and also Tron2.0) as they reflected some parts of the reality, but in an abstract way, so there was something new to explore as viewer. And i think you could even implement some sort of weather, but i would have liked to see something more 'different' in Tron Evolution, so it could be more reasonable that programs have something that is -like- rain, but for some other different reasons and/or needs, so that it is actually not really rain, just looks like.

[Meatsack]

And God created them in His image...

Flynn put it all there to make himself feel more "at home". That's my take on it anyway.

Really though: If you were making your own system from the ground up, what would you be putting in it? As far as I can tell, Flynn was just making a world. It wasn't some corporate mega computer. It wasn't even linked online. CLU had to hack a pager routine to get the call out to Sam. It was "Flynn's World". If Flynn wants boats, he makes boats. Etc, etc... It just looks like he didn't want any daylight. It's always night.

Anyhoo... I think that as long as someone can explain a digital analogy for weather, it's allowable. Water is pure energy and consumable a la TRON & TRON 2.0. Fog could be residual energy (static?) with a slow but constant player energy replenishment for in-game purposes. Deserts lend themselves to be unwritable HDD sectors. Excepting UE2, I cannot recall at the moment any PLANT like structures in any of the lore. There may have been some in Flynn's Lodge or at the EOL bar, but my memory fails me. The only reason for day/night and rain would be to sustain photosynthetic life, thus, it was omitted.

Point being: if Flynn wanted boats, he would have made a program to make boats... or anything else.

Enough rambling from me, though. What do you think?

[HangmanEXE]

Anyhoo... I think that as long as someone can explain a digital analogy for weather, it's allowable. Water is pure energy and consumable a la TRON & TRON 2.0. Fog could be residual energy (static?) with a slow but constant player energy replenishment for in-game purposes. Deserts lend themselves to be unwritable HDD sectors. Excepting UE2, I cannot recall at the moment any PLANT like structures in any of the lore. There may have been some in Flynn's Lodge or at the EOL bar, but my memory fails me. The only reason for day/night and rain would be to sustain photosynthetic life, thus, it was omitted.

Point being: if Flynn wanted boats, he would have made a program to make boats... or anything else.

Enough rambling from me, though. What do you think?

Greetings Programs

...I REALLY like that take on it Meat!
The idea that they do serve some kind of reality reflective function in a digital world would help to explain "some" of them being present there but some still just boggle my mind as to what function other would or could possibly serve at all!
Plus, like you commented, Legacy/Evolution/Uprising are all on a "unique" hard drive/world that was indeed created by FLYNN from the ground code up. So perhaps he had coded in concepts when he built this world that perhaps also naturally caused these natural world weather elements to come into existence naturally like the ISO programs did.... I guess anyway.

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?

[TronFAQ]

It was "Flynn's World".

That's my take on it, as well. The ENCOM systems were designed and programmed strictly for the tasks they were required to do. So inside that world, everything reflected the more business-like purpose it was created for. Programs were more formal, having tasks to do. The world was functional, rather than trying to simulate things more realistically.

Flynn's system was private, and designed as an experiment to simulate reality. Most programs didn't have any purpose, other than to simply exist and populate the grid. Flynn wanted them to behave somewhat independently, with no set purpose, and then see what would happen as a result. It was a life simulator, but on a grander scale than any previous attempt.

At least, that's how I rationalize the change. And that's probably what the writers want you to think, too. When we all know, in reality, setting the electronic world in a different system was an excuse to "reboot" the franchise so they could do whatever they wanted with it.

Excepting UE2, I cannot recall at the moment any PLANT like structures in any of the lore.

But, but, but . . . I like the plants.



Z made them abstract, which was a good choice. Rather than trying to make them look real. I'm also using some plants in UE3. Again, abstract representations.

[deeahchur]

It was "Flynn's World".

That's my take on it, as well. The ENCOM systems were designed and programmed strictly for the tasks they were required to do. So inside that world, everything reflected the more business-like purpose it was created for. Programs were more formal, having tasks to do. The world was functional, rather than trying to simulate things more realistically.

Flynn's system was private, and designed as an experiment to simulate reality. Most programs didn't have any purpose, other than to simply exist and populate the grid. Flynn wanted them to behave somewhat independently, with no set purpose, and then see what would happen as a result. It was a life simulator, but on a grander scale than any previous attempt.

At least, that's how I rationalize the change. And that's probably what the writers want you to think, too. When we all know, in reality, setting the electronic world in a different system was an excuse to "reboot" the franchise so they could do whatever they wanted with it.

Excepting UE2, I cannot recall at the moment any PLANT like structures in any of the lore.

But, but, but . . . I like the plants.



Z made them abstract, which was a good choice. Rather than trying to make them look real. I'm also using some plants in UE3. Again, abstract representations.

It's called Emergence Behavior or Emergence. When I was in a Simulation and Digital Entertainment program, we covered this when using Flash and ActionScript 2.0.