[Shared]- Hangman.EXE HD Sark Carrier - v1.0

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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs

Well I went back and took a VERY HARD long look at my carrier in very close view and I discovered that all the critical error sections were in my cylinder shaped areas or glow strips that had been cut wrong to make them too small.

I am atm doing all my Cylinders and strip cutting completly from scratch again at a 64x64x64 view in all windows and all glow strips at 1x1x1 grid square in 64 setting.
I loaded my original up an checked my cylinder cut areas, an it had been cut on 8 on accident, and that had later caused me to miscut some of the edges to make planes that were under 1x1x1 in size. this will fix many of the errors.

Now some I simply do not know how to fix [ATM].
Like this low rated error ...
Beyond me.jpg
This screenshot shows my cuts out of my front area and 3 "highlighted planes" added into a geometry edited section to make the model area above. All 3 of the highlighted planes list as low errors... but I honestly have NO idea how to fix this so it will not list them as low errors.

If anyone has any idea, I would appreciate hearing it.
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs

Progress update report

I am atm doing an EXTENDED AND EXTREME "HEAVY" Model cleanup of the Geometry as well as more unneeded faces removal.
I am atm cutting an transfering the carrier part by part from its original file to a cleaned up version of the file. I am doing this to ensure that I have located and "REMOVED" as many of the errors as I possibly can without some more experienced help.

ATM [all high and critical errors are now gone], only about 200 low remain.

Also, being disgusted at my rushed ring cuts from them being my VERY first step on this project, those were junked as well as the original connecting ring and a totally new one was cut today.

Here is a pic of my very cleaned up model with the new neck an ring geometry. I think the difference is [VERY] visible now.

Also I added in some more detail work using better brush use to make the Carriers Command area look MUCH more to scale and accurate with the film shots.
EXTENDED Model Cleanup.jpg
I do apologize for the delay with this model realease everyone... I just want to make sure you get something GOOD! An not half-a$$'d, I keep learning new things I could do to improve it daily now. So I do.

Update again ASAP.
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Last edited by HangmanEXE on Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
In my day we didn't need these fancy R,G,B, LCD an 3D colors!
A program was happy to process 15 megacycles just to get to use monochrome display! You program's today wouldn't know a hard microcycles work if it came up and derez'd ya from behind!
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by win3k »

Morning chaps
All 3 of the highlighted planes list as low errors... but I honestly have NO idea how to fix this so it will not list them as low errors.
What is the error description? Points off grid? Redundant points?

Cheers

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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs


...scratch that last post of mine Win! I did some "HEAVY" study of my errors using that tool, an they all appeared to be somewhat the same errors.
SO! I went an RE-looked thru the tutorial I followed an almost died... as I noticed I had (1) page missing in my printout of steps I had learned by. [figures 4-5 removing junctions....[sigh].]

This seems to be what has caused 99%+ of all of my "new current" Carrier model's debugging errors.
T junctions again... [NOW I understand what X, FAQ, win, and everyone else had meant in those older posts when they talked about Tjunctions. Untill "NOW" I had assumed they just meant overlaping pixel planes.]... learned something else new today.
...GOOD! :twisted:

But basically all my errors are "again with my new current Carrier model"... [0 critical errors now] [180 low]
.
These 180 low errors are all...
- Points off grid
- Vertexes are not aligned to the grid <- these are all the small neck ring cuts, and small spheres I used for the glowing ball lights seen all over the carrier; not sure how to fix this.... maybe a 1x1x1x1 cube instead of a very tiny sphere?
- too small plane sizes <- from bad cuts.
.
I KNOW how these all occurred, an they are being corrected. Thankfully atm the majority of these I know exactly how to fix. It will take me a day or so, but expect a new post VERY soon with pics and preview of a new SPANK DAT @$$ quality geometry model.

...HELL YA!
:twisted:

-Update to Follow ASAP
In my day we didn't need these fancy R,G,B, LCD an 3D colors!
A program was happy to process 15 megacycles just to get to use monochrome display! You program's today wouldn't know a hard microcycles work if it came up and derez'd ya from behind!
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs

Well I worked as long as I could. ATM I have the model VERY tweeked ALOT! An the "Current" Model works Error Count - [Critical = 0] [High = 0] [Low =042][/b]

Following errors have been edited an brought onto point...

Ring Connecting Neck Inner ring
Ring Connecting Neck Outter 4 Rings
Ring Neck Glow Band on TOP of Ring Connecting Neck
Ring Neck Glow Band on Bottom of Ring Connecting Neck
Ring Connecting Neck Box
Upside down pyrimid shapes on top of Command Section --Sark to MCP 32bit receiver dish maybe? lol
Ring Layers Have been rebuilt from the box outward - 0 errors with ALL "cylinder" cut shapes now

I completed a new model build for the Command deck area, it looks MUCH better now. I even finally got the outside corrected now.
SarkCarrierCommandDeck.jpg
I still have to do some unneeded faces cleanup on the big ring layer an the neck. But once that is done I can transfer the rest of the carrier parts an begin tracing them all on point with new brushes to rebuild the carrier back fully.
"Hopefully" I will have this, plus having fixed all my errors and be back to cutting strips for red glows within 2 days MAX.

...then its back to making textures.

Update again ASAP!

...now if no one needs me I think I will call it a day/night.
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In my day we didn't need these fancy R,G,B, LCD an 3D colors!
A program was happy to process 15 megacycles just to get to use monochrome display! You program's today wouldn't know a hard microcycles work if it came up and derez'd ya from behind!
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs

Well sadly I didnt get the chance to work on the model any today...[grumbles]... company decided to "invite itself over till leaving just now... yes MANY hours"... [rolls eyes].

...so work will continue tomorrow on the carrier.

BUT here is a prelim of my work so far for ppl to look over. ALSO!!! I "NEED" an experienced Dedit user to contact me back here, as I have a problem I cant figure out.

New PRELIM --

In my model look at these items [these spheres make up about 17 or so of my last 42 map errors to fix]...

[Nodes view]
SarksCommandCarrier
..I--CarrierConnectingNeck
.......I---ConnectingNeckBox
..............I---NeckBoxFlashingLights
-and-
..I--CarrierExteriors
.......I---GlassSphereWindows
-and then-
.......I---GlowBalls


...for the life of me I DO NOT KNOW how to make these at the sizes I need for them -[AND]- still not register as an error.

I would [DEEPLY] appreciate it if one of you could take a look those listed above this an tell me how to CORRECTLY make these orbs so that they will not register as an error. - Instructions for a stupid monkey to do this would REALLY be appreciated also! lol

While on the subject of model making problems!.... I have a New Model building Question.
How do I make an lightmap area flash like airplane landing lights? -as this is the effect [ALOT] of these orbs had in the film.
Balls.jpg
Another Update ASAP. Till then I am gonna crash out an hope someone shows for Q&A help. Have a good night all.
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Last edited by HangmanEXE on Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
In my day we didn't need these fancy R,G,B, LCD an 3D colors!
A program was happy to process 15 megacycles just to get to use monochrome display! You program's today wouldn't know a hard microcycles work if it came up and derez'd ya from behind!
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by win3k »

Morning chaps

There isn't a great deal you can do to remove the "points off grid" errors from the geometry that you've created. It is possible to "jog" the individual vertices onto the grid in geometry editing mode, but (a) that'll take forever and (b) you will almost certainly end up with non-planar polygons as a result. The only way you could avoid that would be to split each of the quads into triangles (it is not possible to construct a non-planar triangle).

That said, as an exercise, I took just one of the balls from your model and fixed it for you (grab a copy right here: http://www.win3k.eu/ball.zip).

To build this, I took one of your existing balls, splitting it away from all of the others that you had joined under the same brush. I then split the brush into its constituent polygons (CTRL + J), and (in plan view), selected just the polygons that corresponded to one quarter (say, north west) and deleted all of the remaining polygons.

I then jumped into Geometry edit mode (CTRL + G) and jogged (M + left mouse click) all of the vertices to the nearest grid point (grid size set to one unit) in both the plan and side view.

Running the level error detector revealed (as expected) that pretty much all of the polys were non-planar, so next up (brush mode [CTRL + B]), and select each of the polys in turn from the level error detector, create a vertex [space] at opposite corners of the poly, and split the poly into triangles by pressing [s]. Rinse and repeat, until the level error detector says "no problemo, Senor Hangman".

Finally, select all of the polys and rejoin them into a single brush (shift + J). Select the (now single) brush and move marker to the brush's location (via toolbar button "marker to selection"). Paste the brush [ctrl V] and move the new copy to the marker [Shift + Z]. In plan view, manually move the marker to the corner of the brush (the point that will become the centre of the ball) by holding X while moving the mouse to the appropriate point. Again in plan view, right-click and rotate selection by 90 degrees.

Rinse and repeat for the remaining two quarters, then have a final jog (geometry mode) to ensure that vertices are aligned at the edges of the four brushes. Have a final run through the level error detector, and then sit back relaxed in the knowledge that you are now a dedit God.

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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs

Thanks [ALOT] Win for the spheres! I "REALLY" appreciate your help there.
.
.
.
Progress Update...
I managed to get [ALL] errors out... after some new geometry parts having to be made.
I am now doing "final" Unused faces cleanup as well as making some of my textures that I need.
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Last edited by HangmanEXE on Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In my day we didn't need these fancy R,G,B, LCD an 3D colors!
A program was happy to process 15 megacycles just to get to use monochrome display! You program's today wouldn't know a hard microcycles work if it came up and derez'd ya from behind!
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 98.1%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs

Progress Update

Here is what I managed to get done tonite...
CarrierProgress.jpg
This is a [0] error model version. I still have to remove the unneeded faces in the ring section... I know ... I know. lol.
BUT!.. the carrier has a new body an now all I need is to know how to do the textures [see previous post by me here on this thread].

But have my model now at [0] errors. It still needs some cuts an edges placed an those damned faces removed in the layered rings. But its getting there....lol.

Update Again ASAP.

P.S.... [edited]- Ignore my Textures request as I found an EXTREMELY old post by X about transparency textures an from what I jsut figures out about standard 24/32 uncompressessed TGA format textures I know the other now.

Thanks to all who reply.
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In my day we didn't need these fancy R,G,B, LCD an 3D colors!
A program was happy to process 15 megacycles just to get to use monochrome display! You program's today wouldn't know a hard microcycles work if it came up and derez'd ya from behind!
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 99.6%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs

Sark Carrier Build Progress Report

Well I "believe" I have finished [all] unused faces cleanup... unless there is a 1x1x1 somewhere I missed. lol. Here is a model for prelim review. It is a 0 error model still I am atm doing cuts for the light strips/glows and doing my textures and placing them.
Before anyone asks why the carrier is so blue looking I am using DIRECT Bluray pixels blown up for my sampeling. So what you see IS the Carriers ORIGINAL film colors.

An yes I know it was different in [ALOT] of shots. But my model build uses the colors and body shape it displayed in the "majority" of all its original film shots. The colors which it used was a Grey/blue color, with 6 clearly different color shades building down to basic black acting as light playing on the hull in places for certain faces.

Here is a screen shot.
Progress.jpg
Also here is a solid model prelim for inspection.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/cee23ba/n/PRELIM_rar

If anyone does test it out by adding in needed start objects. I would really be interested to see a reply by ANYONE as to how it loads, an looks in the games engine. ATM I am using custom textures. So you may need to extract a few before testing... but I am not sure. This is all new to me using the custom texturing.
BE AWARE the model is STILL UNFINISHED!
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A program was happy to process 15 megacycles just to get to use monochrome display! You program's today wouldn't know a hard microcycles work if it came up and derez'd ya from behind!
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 99.6%]

Post by TronFAQ »

It looks like you've found the solution to importing your textures into DEdit. Nice. :D Curious though, if you're importing .TGAs into DEdit (sounds like it) or using the Photoshop plugin?

The plugin is a bit tricky to get working properly, but it can ease the creation of textures for use in DEdit because it exports the textures directly to .DTX format. I can provide details on how to get it working. I also included some extra files that will be needed to use the plugin, in the Tools self-installer I made.

About the look of the textures in DEdit, I wouldn't worry about that too much. The lighting in DEdit is Flat and the textures won't look the same in-game if you use different lighting. DEdit sets the brushes to use Gouraud lighting instead, by default. Gouraud is probably the type of lighting you'll want to use on most brushes, most of the time. It's a better quality lighting.

Though sometimes you might want to use Flat. But it will result in dull looking textures on the brushes. Lightmaps are nice and all, but take too long to calculate during compile and slow down the rendering in the game. It should be used sparingly. I think Monolith typically used Lightmap lighting on reflective looking surfaces, to give them that extra visual punch.
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 99.6%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

Greetings Programs

Progress update

Well I had planned to pull an all-nighter an finish ALL my cuts an put all my textures on but its not gonna happen... about to pass out. Sadly I am out of pop to keep me running... lol.
SO! I will return to finish tomorrow as early as possible. I "HOPE" to have the model released by wed night at the latest.. again [HOPEFULLY].
PLEASE BE AWARE THO! That realease will be this MODEL ONLY! I am still working on my Carrier interior Derez map rooms. That will follow after the public release of my Carrier model.
.
.
.
Sark has ordered me to keep going but I cant...

So he is gonna copy an paste some backup copies of his null units to do some of the smaller work for me while I am powered down in sleep mode to recharge.
Greetings.jpg
Ya, FAQ. BUT the way I am going about it is I am makign my textures in PAintshop pro 8 then savin an opening them in Adobe Photoshop an then saving them as the uncompressed TGA files. I open my Hangman textures folder an import them. Bammo. All I have done yet.
BUT, as I have stated... I have [NOT] tried loading this model yet, lol. She is still in drydocks atm. I had planned to just do as much as I could without causing errors or having many T junctions if any an then test it out.
All I know to do. Like I said... I am still learning.

Tryin to read as many of these tutorials in this big Dedit pack of yours that I can.
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A program was happy to process 15 megacycles just to get to use monochrome display! You program's today wouldn't know a hard microcycles work if it came up and derez'd ya from behind!
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 99.6%]

Post by TronFAQ »

HangmanEXE wrote:BUT the way I am going about it is I am makign my textures in PAintshop pro 8 then savin an opening them in Adobe Photoshop an then saving them as the uncompressed TGA files. I open my Hangman textures folder an import them.
Yeah, see that's a lot of work. You could save the textures directly from Paintshop as .DTX files and cut two steps out of the process. Would save you a lot of time. Paintshop is compatible with Photoshop plugins, fortunately. I use Paintshop myself, instead of Photoshop. It's less complicated to use, and does the job.

If you used the self-installing Editing Tools, then go to C:\Program Files\Buena Vista Interactive\Tron 2.0\Tools\Plugins. Copy the files DTXFormat.8bi, MSVCIRTD.DLL, and MSVCRTD.DLL. Paste them in your C:\Program Files\JASC Software\Paintshop Pro 8\PlugIns folder. This is assuming you installed both programs to the default locations.

Then in Paintshop, go to File > Preferences > File Locations, then click on Plug-ins on the left side of the window that pops up. The PlugIns folder should already be listed and enabled, on the right. If not, Add that folder and put a checkmark in the Enable plug-ins box at the top as well as the Enable box at the bottom.

Now you should be able to both Load and Save .DTX files. There's a bug/problem with the plugin, though. If you edit an image, and let's say the original format was .PSD, you have to save your edits in the original format before you try to save as a .DTX. If you edit an image and don't save first before trying to create a .DTX version, you'll get an error.

And when you want to save a .DTX, a window will pop up asking you to select a bunch of options. Like Compression, Mipmap levels, Full-Brites, etc. Anything other than 32-bit means your textures will be compressed and lose some quality. The trade-off is that while you lose varying levels of quality depending on the compression level you choose, your textures become much smaller in file size. Most map makers chose to compress their textures. The DTX5 compression is probably the best compromise between quality and size. For Mipmaps, I'd probably leave it where it is. Same goes for the rest of the options. Though Full-Brites really makes your texture glow if it has an Alpha Mask.
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 99.6%]

Post by HangmanEXE »

-[edited]- added a bit more information on loading problem

Greetings Programs

... Ok guys I need some SERIOUS help now.

I sadly have 2 Problems that require help/input...

1. Sark Carrier Model testing problem -I tried running my model in Dedit - yes I know. Here is my processing info it listed when processing finished.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Packing world for the PC platform


Gathering processed data
Packing geometry and lightmaps
Packing worldmodels

World .DAT file Size : 7.5 MB
World Tree : 715 B
World Models : 576.0 KB
Objects : 29.1 KB
Blind Object Data : 4 B
Light Grid : 6.1 MB
Blockers : 8 B
Particle Blockers : 8 B
Render Data : 832.9 KB

-------------------
Done in 22.53 minutes

Number of input polies: 9211
Number of input vertices: 11312

Number of output polies: 8635
Number of output vertices: 6413
Tree depth: 156

Lightmap data size: 0k
Number of objects: 44

----------------------------------------------------------- I just now sent an email to all of you LDSO members with this new version just now with my current file version up to were I am with light strip cuts. ATM this version is set to all FLAT no gouraud or lightmaps at all to reduce loading. Please look over it an tell whats wrong plz if you can before I continue cutting. It sets at black for about 5 seconds then kicks up the lithtech crash error pop. ...if this wont load at all all I have done is waste my time. :(

I am NOW building my interior stages for my Derez map version of the Carrier.
2. What rooms do I "NEED" to make or what is "FOR SURE" to be INSIDE the carrer?
I know these are in the carrier 100%...

[KNOWN 100% for sure Interiors]
Interiors.JPG
Plus
LCHoldingArea.JPG
ALSO the 4 external "walkways of death" as I call them that were seen on the flat side of the carrier.
Considering it was patterned after an aircraft carrier, It would use alot of lifts that go up an down via switches, an alot of narrow halls.

BUT what else do you think would be there? or NEEDS to be there?
... I "think" that with the carrier being much like a aircraft carrier, it [may] have a brig on board like the one TRON, Flynn, an Rom,Chrome were in down on the ground. This...

[75% chance there]
Pitcell.JPG
[40% chance]

Now, I do NOT think the Gameroom where Flynn an Chrome played against one another in was onboard the carrier but on another ground arena like the LC arena was, as that would be consistent with other arenas and considering the basic nature of computer back then. - I used this to factor into a programs "thinking level" in the TRON world... I mean look at null units... what morons, lol.
I assumed this would be a basic programming thing ... one way ya know, due to its original programming.


But what else or anything do you think may have been on board the Carrier?
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Re: [Shared]- Sark Carrier -["Model" Work 99.6%]

Post by xistence »

You are using polies, which are several thousands of units in size, the processor/renderer doesn't like this. You might want to split these ultra large polies into smaller pieces.
As test, i just splitted your model into piece of max 8096 units each in a raw way => it processed very fast. Before it took ages (on a Intel quad i7, 4 Gig RAM and latest Nvidia with 1 Gig!).

BTW. extremely nice job on this model!
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